A Little Color Sense People
We went up to the stock show last weekend. A good sweet and dear friend offered to keep The Goblin Child for us All Day. It was awesome. Like a date, or maybe it just was a date. They managed to get her to sit mostly still through church with them and took she took the child to her in-laws house for supper. All kinds of fun things and she got to play with her other favorite boy all day. Sorry Jack you aren’t her only love.
It snowed the day before but the roads were getting better on the way up. We got there just in time for lunch. At HuHots, I don’t think we have any longer a drive to get to a HuHots than the rest of my family, so much for the benefits of living in a big city. And ours had clams and calamari. My only regret was that I couldn’t eat any more.
We stopped at Manards and looked for a light for the nursery. Found one but not in stock. Oh well that’s what Amazon is for.
And then for the whole reason for going up, we went to the fair grounds and watched some of the ranch horse competition. Of course we got there just as they broke for lunch. Oh well. We looked at the big trailers with living quarters. My non-horsey husband was justifiably horrified. I’m horrified and I’m used to the behemoths. The excess is ridicules. I fondled all the beautiful tack ohhing and aweing over the butter soft leather. Scowling about all the nasty roping type bits that seem to be the equivalent of putting barb wire in a horses mouth. Seriously who needs to have chain and all the sharp twists on a mouth piece to control their horse and why does the number and severity of these bits seem to be increasing all the time?
Then we sat down and waited. My farmer husband found something for him when the tractor, a cute little case, pulled into work the arena. And work the arena. And work the arena, until the lady waiting patiently to give out awards was able to catch his attention and tell him to stop, please.
Finally the next class up was the novice. I was sorry to miss all the exciting fence work of the more advanced classes but the novice has excitement all its own. Most of the rides were excelent with well train nicely ridden horses that all just needed some polish and experience. A couple needed lots more work. One girl who handled it nicely and didn’t get dumped was run away with out the open gate. She didn’t loose her temper and brought the young horse back patiently schooling him through the pattern.
Another lady on a fully grown Palomino who was very hot and screaming desperately the whole time also managed not to fall off as he spooked and shied and really tried to dump her the whole way through.
Only one guy gave a good example of the cow work. I was a bit disappointed even in his. I wanted to point to these people doing fence work, fast and exhilarating galloping down the long side to turn the cow on a dime with dirt flying and tell my doubting husband to look, I used to do that. From what he saw I don’t think he quite was able to appreciate.
We went to the stock show proper and looked around, we got gas, looked at the book store and ate some more. Olive Garden this time. Then missing the child and quite ready for bed we headed home.
The next day looking through one of the horse magzines we had picked up I came across and add for Haythorn’s horse sale. They had been up there and I knew them from way back when, so I paused to look at it.
In the middle of the page was a young black horse. He caught my eye because of shear ugliness, a mile down hill, ugly head, I know I always say how completely unimportant it is but this really caught my eye. He really just did not appeal to me. I read his write up to discover that he was still a stud and my horror increased. We can maybe credit some of the down hill and ugly to being so young, a coming two year old, but shouldn’t only the best of the best be bred? Not just anything with the required parts? That is pretty common though so not too surprising. The part that bothered me was where it said that he would throw colorful offspring because, and I quote “his mother is blue roan and his father palomino.”
| This young stud is by the Checkers Daughter we have by the mare Miss Blue Quail, that was in the embryo program at the 6666’s. If you keep him a stallion you should get lots of color, his mother is blue roan and his father palomino. Many opportunities with the Driftwood bloodlines. 15.1 Hands 1250 lbs. |
Wait a minute, Seriously people? Haythorns are big time, they have won the AQHA remuda of the year in the past they spend a fortune on horses and stud fees and advertising and they have some really nice horses. And still they don’t, or the person doing their advertising doesn’t, have the most basic grasp of genetics? That is what I have, the most basic of understandings, and it stuck out at me like a sore thumb. I double checked just to make sure I had my facts straight and yes I do. This BLACK stud has a possibility of throwing color, we assume they mean roan and palomino, because that is the color of his parents according to them.
The only problem is, can you guess? Do you know the answer? I should wait till tomorrow to say. I know/hope my mom has it already.
Answer:
Both of those are dominant genes. They can not be covered by another base color. In order to pass on they must first be present and if they are present we will be able to see them.
Grey could cover it. If he were much older and already greyed out it could mask the other color, but he is not grey. He is black.
If he is really a smokey black he could be carrying one dilute, or cream, gene making it possible that he could throw palomino or buckskin and the like. He looks slightly faded, we will give him this as his only possibility of throwing color, other than being bred to a colorful mare, but it’s a long shot as they strongly believe him to be black. Of course they have already given us reason to doubt them in this.
He is definitely not a roan so that is not happening. He is not palomino and not a buckskin. This is not the first big time breeder I have known who lacks a basic understanding of color. While it is not imperative in a breeding operation, I suppose, it does seem like a good idea to know what you’re talking about.
Mostly I enjoyed finding this little error in an area that I love and am fascinated by on behalf of such a big time breeder. It made my day.
I love hu hots. and menards what a date. do you remember when the book store had live music I miss that as for the color horse stuff I am probably with laral on that don\’t no what you are talking about but that tractor sonds fun only 1 ore 2 weeks left
Okay. It just happens that this week, as I was checking out colorful stallions (i am sure you can guess why) I came across an amazing thing on the colorful morgan page. Two palominos that appear black or dark bay. Both were the result of the sooty gene, one on a single cream dilute. Was so interesting that it stuck in my head. Not much does, any more. Both horses started out golden, but darkened with age. This stud colt you speak of is what, a two year old?
That seems a little young for him to have become so dark, but I believe the morgan filly was not much older when she darkened all the way. The statement by the first morgan said there was a little hint of the geldings true color left in gold- really just paler brown areas around his face. I looked closely at the aqha and thought there might still be a touch of gold around his flanks and maybe around the back of his front legs. Also wondered if a little of his ugly head and neck could be caused by a cropped picture. It just dosent look right. Well that is my answer, all though not what you probably thought I would answer. Seems hard to believe a ranch with those reds could get it so wrong. If I had not just looked at the color page I too would think that was some bad call. And may be it was!
I did see the ones you are talking about, where do you think I looked when I double checked my facts? In fact if you click on where it says palomino it takes you to that exact page. I was assuming, even though I know what happens when you assume, that had he been a completely different color as a foal someone might have noticed.They called him black, they didn\’t say magic color changing foal. I still am willing to give him smoky black, but only as his slim chance of throwing color. I like my breed where they give the genetic color test results so much of the time when they claim a color.
I was still right though you did know why it wouldn\’t work.
wow you get a little testy when people, question your theories. You are right, and I also bought he is a true black, he is faded in spots that bright sandhills sun wouldn\’t be strongest on What ever he is he looks to me like he is destined for gelding! Enjoyed the blog!
I didn\’t mean to sound testy, sorry if it came across that way. I love Morgan Colors it\’s my favorite sight for color info, that was all I meant. I was also thinking that someone with so little apparent knowledge of color genetics, or even someone with a passable amount, I know it would shock me, would be so amazed by the change of color that they would think it worthy of mentioning.
Breed registration is usually done as a foal if he had been born palomino there\’s a good chance he would\’ve been registered as such. But my favorite argument against the possibility is breed based. The quarter horse is a very modern breed. By the mid twentieth century when they were being developed many of the color prejudices of the previous centuries were falling away. Buckskin and palomino were no longer looked down upon so badly. Over a century earlier when Morgans were developed dark solid colors were the fashion leading to a far greater prevalence of the sooty gene. As a result you don\’t see the beautiful dark palominos and buckskins in quarter horses as much, instead they usually show a plain yellow.
This is more fun than I\’ve had in ages. We\’ll have to find more horse color claims to critique.